Homosexuality: The Mental Illness That Went Away

by Phil Hickey on October 8, 2011

Post edited and updated January 2, 2013, to reflect clarifications as a result of interactions with the many people who have left comments.  I thank them for their input.

********************

According to the American Psychiatric Association, until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness.  Freud had alluded to homosexuality numerous times in his writings, and had concluded that paranoia and homosexuality were inseparable.  Other psychiatrists wrote copiously on the subject, and homosexuality was “treated” on a wide basis.  There was little or no suggestion within the psychiatric community that homosexuality might be conceptualized as anything other than a mental illness that needed to be treated.  And, of course, homosexuality was listed as a mental illness in DSM-II.  (The DSM – Diagnostic and Statistical Manual – is the APA’s standard classification of their so-called mental disorders, and is used by many mental health workers in the USA and other countries.)

Then in 1970 gay activists protested against the APA convention in San Francisco.  These scenes were repeated in 1971, and as people came out of the “closet” and felt empowered politically and socially, the APA directorate became increasingly uncomfortable with their stance.  In 1973 the APA’s nomenclature task force recommended that homosexuality be declared normal.  The trustees were not prepared to go that far, but they did vote to remove homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses by a vote of 13 to 0, with 2 abstentions.  This decision was confirmed by a vote of the APA membership, and homosexuality was no longer listed in the seventh edition of DSM-II, which was issued in 1974.

What’s noteworthy about this is that the removal of homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses was not triggered by some scientific breakthrough.  There was no new fact or set of facts that stimulated this major change.  Rather, it was the simple reality that gay people started to kick up a fuss.  They gained a voice and began to make themselves heard.  And the APA reacted with truly astonishing speed.  And with good reason. They realized intuitively that a protracted battle would have drawn increasing attention to the spurious nature of their entire taxonomy.  So they quickly “cut loose” the gay community and forestalled any radical scrutiny of the DSM system generally.

The APA claimed that they made the change because new research showed that most homosexual people were content with their sexual orientation, and that as a group, they appeared to be as well-adjusted as heterosexual people.  I suggest, however, that these research findings were simply the APA’s face-saver.  For centuries, perhaps millennia, homosexual people had clung to their sexual orientation despite the most severe persecution and vilification, including imprisonment and death.  Wouldn’t this suggest that they were happy with their orientation?  Do we need research to confirm this?  And if we do, shouldn’t we also need research to confirm that heterosexual people are happy with their orientation?  And if poor adjustment is critical to a diagnosis of mental illness, where was the evidence of this that justified making homosexuality a mental illness in the first place?

Also noteworthy is the fact that the vote of the membership was by no means unanimous.  Only about 55% of the members who voted favored the change.

Of course, the APA put the best spin they could on these events.  The fact is that they altered their taxonomy because of intense pressure from the gay community, but they claimed that the change was prompted by research findings.

So all the people who had this terrible “illness” were “cured” overnight – by a vote!  I remember as a boy reading of the United Nations World Health Organization’s decision to eradicate smallpox.  This was in 1967, and by 1977, after a truly staggering amount of work, the disease was a thing of the past.  Why didn’t they just take a vote?  Because smallpox is a real illness.  The human problems listed in DSM are not.  It’s that simple.  You can say that geese are swans – but in reality they’re still geese.

The overall point being that the APA’s taxonomy is nothing more than self-serving nonsense.  Real illnesses are not banished by voting or by fiat, but by valid science and hard work.  There are no mental illnesses.  Rather, there are people.  We have problems; we have orientations; we have habits; we have perspectives.  Sometimes we do well, other times we make a mess of things.  We are complicated.  Our feelings fluctuate with our circumstances, from the depths of despondency to the pinnacles of bliss.  And perhaps, most of all, we are individuals.  DSM’s facile and self-serving attempt to medicalize human problems is an institutionalized insult to human dignity.  The homosexual community has managed to liberate themselves from psychiatric oppression.  But there are millions of people worldwide who are still being damaged, stigmatized, and disempowered by this pernicious system to this day.

  • Roy Jung

    Jesus! The ignorance posted on this blog is astounding! Especially following such a well written article. If sexual orientation is a “choice”, then YOU choose to change yours and let me know how that works out for you! Ignorance certainly is bliss … my God!

  • http://adignorantium.tumblr.com/ Frank

    What a well thought out article. Though I might argue that, in fighting to have homosexuality removed from the list of mental disorders, LGBT plaintiffs (including Barbara Gittings and Frank Kameny) proved that they were happy with their orientation. After all, Gittings and Kameny had been working for at least two decades prior to the 1974 decision with groups like Daughters of Bilitis and Mattachine Society to advance Homophile rights. Gittings and partner Kay Lahusen were happy together for 46 years. (Gittings passed away in 2007) One would hardly be expected to fight in favor of something you were unhappy with.

    People often forget that being an “out” homosexual could subject you to chemical castration and/or lobotomy. There was good reason to have homosexuality removed from the list of disorders. The “treatment” was cruel at best.

    I think you summed it up beautifully when you asked, “where was the evidence…that justified making homosexuality a mental illness in the first place”

  • Phil_Hickey

    Frank,

    Thanks for your encouraging comment. As you’ve probably noticed I’ve received a good many negative comments on this post.

    Best wishes.

  • http://adignorantium.tumblr.com/ Frank

    Yes, I can see the vitriol all through the comment section. What a shame that people have to be so aggressively nasty in order to feel better about themselves.

    Before I go, there’s an interesting book by Tracy Baim about Barbara Gittings that I only just started reading. Lillian Federman writes in the forward that convincing the APA to remove homosexuality from the list of mental disorders was no small feat. They (Barbara and Frank) had to refute the long held Freudian standard on sexuality. (Freud was obsessed with sex.) The key was finding gay psychiatrists who would be willing to testify at the 1972 conference.

    No matter your opinion on homosexuality, this bit of American history is a fascinating read.

    Anyway. best to you as well. Take care. F.D.

  • Thilina

    What if people started thinking child molesters and rapists as normal in future…since there is huge number of people do it and think in the same way….what is kids started sleeping with their parents…since it’s pure love…..i saw a recent article, mother and daughter are a couple…aren’t we close to be acting like animals….you bring 2 dogs home…in few years they get puppies…male puppy started having kids with the mother….how different is that…..i like to know how many gay or lesbians are out there who was not a victim of sexual harassment in their past and then choose to become one….

  • Rob Bishop

    Male bottlenose dolphins are known to corner and gang-bang a female dolphin. Certain ducks, geese, insects, and spiders engage in violent forced copulation. Behaviors we call “abnormal” have developed during the evolution of our species, and most make perfect logical sense when understood within the framework of natural selection. Considering how evolution shapes behavior, rape is highly adaptive.

  • William Parsons

    Yes and looking to animals for cues on how to conduct ourselves is such a winning strategy.

  • Rob Bishop

    I’m not advocating rape. Rape is an example of behavior that’s
    seen as abnormal or a sign of mental illness when it’s actually functional within the framework of evolution.

  • cajaquarius

    I am gay and was not the victim of sexual harassment or abuse. So there you go. Also, raping kids and incest are a far cry from homosexuality. It seems it is specifically the traditionalists who have trouble making a distinction, which is weird since they are also claiming to be the moral ones, yet are unable to distinguish between things that cause harm to others versus things that don’t.

  • William Parsons

    “Raping kids and incest” are different from homosexuality only in that the homosexual lobby has enjoyed recent success whereas lobbies for other deviants have not yet. You maintain you were not abused; be honest and forthright about your other formative factors. Did you have normal relationships with BOTH male and female parents? Were you raised in an environment that condoned sexual deviance or other antisocial behaviors? Homosexuality is a response to trauma. It is no more normal than an adult woman who consents to be in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship because she has internalized and normalized the trauma of her childhood. The homosexual lobby has totemized “adult consent” because it is compatible with moral relativism. In reality, we know that “consenting adults” do all kinds of immoral things, and “consent” in a vacuum is no guarantor of morality.

  • cajaquarius

    [“Raping kids and incest” are different from homosexuality only in that the homosexual lobby has enjoyed recent success whereas lobbies for other deviants have not yet]

    Homosexuality causes no corporeal harm.

    [You maintain you were not abused; be honest and forthright about your other formative factors. Did you have normal relationships with BOTH male and female parents? Were you raised in an environment that condoned sexual deviance or other antisocial behaviors?]

    I was raised in a conservative Catholic environment and had pretty average relationships with mother and father. Not that it matters. There is no evidence to suggest that homosexuality is a result of trauma. All existing studies have been debunked and the most recent is over thirty years old.

    [Homosexuality is a response to trauma. It is no more normal than an adult woman who consents to be in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship because she has internalized and normalized the trauma of her childhood]

    An interesting hypothesis. Shame there’s no evidence to back it up.

    [The homosexual lobby has totemized “adult consent” because it is compatible with moral relativism. In reality, we know that “consenting adults” do all kinds of immoral things, and “consent” in a vacuum is no guarantor of morality]

    Again, you make claims but no proof. Your burden of proof is unmet.

    Thank you for playing.

  • cajaquarius

    Your God sounds like a monster. I have helped, personally, a lesbian come out of your Church of Christ and deconvert so I am happy to say I have helped harm your God by leading his sheep away. I intend to spend the rest of my life doing this. What can your God do to stop me? Send me to hell twice? He and you are powerless. So, knowing that there are people like me in the world, enemies who will fight you and your evil God, I bid you to have a nice life.

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  • RB Joe

    BS! Homos are Demon processed, germ carrying rats. They were the cause for the spread Black Plague in the 1300s. And to this day they are responsible for killing million with there STDs. And any society that accepts their perverted pedophile hunger will perish.

  • mucklucky

    Sexual orientation is just a new catch phase created to make homosexuals feel good about picking a perverted sexual lifestyle.

    There is no such thing as sexual orientation. Look between your legs and you can easily determine your sex. If you chose to have sex with someone of the same sex, then you are a homosexual.
    Using the same logic, I suppose you would consider the choice to be a thief or a murderer as occupational orientation.

    There is a simple answer, but those who deny God will never accept it.
    Homosexuality is a sin… same as murder. It is referred to as an abomination to God.

    You never hear any disease i.e. leprosy being called a sin. No one is ever told that they must repent from a disease.
    I realize those who hate religion and do not accept there is a God will ignore the above… but hopefully on their death bed they will reach out to God and ask for forgiveness.

  • lorrainie

    God is a awesome God and we are all sinners.
    You’re right, we hope they change their deviant lifestyle and accept God and ask for forgiveness.

  • Rob Bishop

    Christianity caters to the fact that we are easily duped into believing we are flawed defective creatures.

  • William Parsons

    “believing?” so after a day of honestly evaluating yourself, you conclude you are a perfect creature?

  • Rob Bishop

    After a lifetime of believing I’m a flawed defective sinful creature, I’ve abandoned the notion. We’re all very prone to believing we’re screwed up. Many people passionately proclaim, “I’m not normal! Something is wrong with me!”. If we don’t counter attack our irrational thinking and self-loathing, they have the power to send us to the depths of hell… anxiety, depression, addiction, suicide.

  • Warren

    look between your legs and you will be able to tell a persons gender, not their sexuality. homosexuality is defined as same sex attraction. it is not about sex. homosexuality is not even mentioned in the Bible.

  • cajaquarius

    The only interaction with your God I ever hope to have is to spit in his face and go to hell with the rest of the innocent people that monster has mistreated.

  • Rob Bishop

    Hating the haters only creates more hate in the world.

  • cajaquarius

    And not standing up in defiance of the wicked grants them victory.

  • Rob Bishop

    Standing up in defiance has never defeated hatred. Not once. All forms of hatred are rooted in self-hatred. To grant haters compassion doesn’t grant them “victory” but releases us from our ego driven judgments and allows us to appreciate their suffering. Yes, this goes against everything we’ve been taught. Our culture values anger and views compassion as weakness.

  • RCLN

    So who’s the ‘hater’ here? Seems to me the poster was railing against a god, not that god’s intolerant followers.

    “Standing up in defiance has never defeated hatred. Not once.”? I can think of numerous instances. Rosa Parks being only one.

  • Rob Bishop

    Rosa Parks did not eliminate anyone’s hatred. What makes you think she did?

  • RCLN

    You didn’t say ‘Standing up in defiance never eliminated anyone’s hatred’. Nor was that what I took exception to. What you said was, “defiance has never defeated hatred.”

    Rosa Park’s defiance was a significant victory in defeating Jim Crow; it was her DEFIANCE of White privilege that began eroding it. Oppressors aren’t looking for compassion, they’re looking for compliance when, in fact, what they deserve is nothing less than defiance.

  • Rob Bishop

    Many people hate racism, sexism, our government, corporations, a political party, terrorists, etc. Hatred is self-righteous indignation, and when people hate, it simply creates more hate in the world. Forcefully trying to eliminate someone’s hate usually makes their hate stronger. I agree taking action can and often does reduce human suffering. But action does not have to be motivated by hate…..I’m not sure Park’s eroding white privilege led to people hating less. Do you think there is much less racism (hatred, not social “equality”) now than 100 years ago? Everyone want’s to think so, that’s for sure! But if you believe the news, racism is alive and well today.

  • RCLN

    Although I agree that ‘hatred corrupts the vessel that contains it’, again, what I objected to was what you wrote: ‘Standing up in DEFIANCE never eliminated anyone’s hatred’. To my way of thinking, ‘defiance’ implies there’s an authority being refused, no? Refusing to submit to an authority fomenting hatred is the most direct route in deposing it. Park’s defied the authorities and in doing so made a lot of people stop and question, for the first time perhaps, the morality of the status quo and its basis in racial hatred. So yes, I’d say her defiance helped in eliminating people’s hatred.

    Do I think there’s less racism now than a 100 years ago? Yes, just as there’s less sexiam and homophobia… Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of intellectual capacity and moral character and that one race is superior to others. That was almost universally believed by Whites of European ancestry 100 years ago. Today, not so much.

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  • uiop

    This is certainly not an issue many people would like to discuss not because as the Kenya president puts it during Obama’s visit Kenya “its a non issue for Africans but because t many fear that they would be considered as not modern or not human right sensitive. That fact that Russian scientists claim to have the cured for the disease and that it was once classified as a mental disorder by the American psychiatric association leave us to wonder as to who is fooling who? Sympathising with sufferers and declaring them normal is only politically motivated. Finding a cure is the utimate. For Nigeria na only ritualist dem dey do am o

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  • Jacqui

    Interesting article, up until the part here you compare a physiological illness with a mental illness and then conclude that there’s no such thing as a mental illness. So, schizophrenia does not exist? Multiple personality disorder does not exist? Bipolar Disorder does not exist? Try explaining that to the millions of people that suffer from these mental illnesses on a daily basis. Is it now a figment of their imagination purely because they reject their mental illness and the misery it brings them? Please….

  • Phil_Hickey

    Jacqui,

    Thanks for coming in. The point is that the various problems listed in the DSM, except for those identified as due to a general medical condition, are not illnesses, i.e., there is no biological pathology that has ever been linked definitively to these problems.

    Again, thanks for coming in, and best wishes.

  • William Parsons

    “Biological pathology?” Homosexual brains differ measurably from their heterosexual comparators – what you call it is up to you. Homosexuality is not statistically normal.

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  • Sweetie

    The lowest STD rate in general is for gay women. If you want to look at monogamous married couples then the lowest rate will again be for gay women.

  • Harry King

    HPV changed that.

  • Lerro

    Hence, there are probably, more-than-likely, going to be less pregnancies from females having themselves a homosexual-relationship. Check it out . . .

  • Some Guy

    gays can be fixed. they have a mental illness. it offensive to the one’s who have it, so they are in denial. mentally challenged people sometimes will fight with you on the fact that they aren’t mentally challenged. it is exactly the same thing.

    no one see’s the world without bias anymore.

  • Drenn Workman

    “The homosexual community has managed to liberate themselves from psychiatric oppression” should read “The homosexual community has managed to liberate themselves from the help they might have received from the psychiatric community”.

  • James Yamaguchi

    I just came here from a curiosity search in google. I just wish to say that the comments in this discussion have been very informative and fascinating. I can definitely say that a lot of my preconceived nations of homosexuality that society have taught me has been challenged (ex homosexuality is a gene/inherited or removal of homosexuality as a mental illness more of a political issue than a scientifically proven fact etc). I will definitely pour into the sources suggested in the comments section. My gay friends will definitely not like the facts here but the truth is not always convenient.

  • Benjamin Lassmann

    There are no mental illnesses?
    Tell that to the family of an Alzheimer’s patient.

  • Rob Bishop

    Alzheimer’s is a neurodegenerative disease and is not classified as a mental illness.

  • Benjamin Lassmann

    Well, okay, google says you are right, so I should have chosen another example.
    If it comes down to semantics, then the semantics that matter are a person’s ability to function: to do meaningful work, to sustain interpersonal relations, etc. You are ill if your mental function is chronically impaired in a way that harms your life. This does not descrive homosexuality.

  • Rob Bishop

    Homosexuality aside, millions of people are diagnosed with the mental illness of “depression” and “anxiety”. No blood tests or brain scans are performed, and after a brief conversation, these people are prescribed psychoactive drugs to correct “neuro-chemical imbalances”. The average amount of time a “specialist” spends talking to someone before prescribing drugs for depression is 14 minutes. Depression and anxiety are very real experiences, for sure. But there’s no scientific evidence they are caused by biological defects. Many accept the proposal that depression, anxiety, PTSD, obesity, ADHD, violent rage, and addiction are mental illnesses because we are prone to believing we are defective creatures. and, most people have never heard non-biological explanations for what causes these forms of suffering. There’s a huge community of scientists who do not think these afflictions are diseases. If you are suffering so much you live in a cave alone and never speak to anyone, that does not mean you are ill. It means you are suffering. There’s a big distinction.

  • Phil_Hickey

    Benjamin,

    You are, of course, free to use words to mean anything you want. But the accepted meaning of “illness” or “disease” entails the presence of a biological pathology. And as Rob has pointed out, the great majority of so-called mental illnesses involve no biological pathology whatsoever.

    Your definition of illness would include chronic bad-temperedness. Do you really believe that this is an illness? Similarly for childhood misbehavior. Do you consider this an illness? And what about habitual criminality? Would you call that an illness? And lest you consider this semantics, all of the behaviors I’ve mentioned above are mental illnesses according to psychiatrists.

    Bad-temperedness in children is called disruptive mood dysregulation disorder; childhood misbehavior: oppositional defiant disorder; habitual criminality is called conduct disorder; etc… As far as psychiatry is concerned, any significant problem of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving is an illness.

    If you would like to pursue these matters further, please take a look at my posts: Depression Is Not An Illness: It Is An Adaptive Mechanism; Schizophrenia Is Not An Illness (Parts 1, 2, 3); Bipolar Disorder Is Not An Illness. I’d be happy to discuss further.

    Best wishes.

  • Jordan JL Wright

    Sorry to completely kick the credibility of this article here …
    While, Perhaps I don’t agree 100% with Everything the DSM states

    WHAT do you describe Mental Retardation, Schizophrenia, Autism, Asperger’s as? If not mental illness then WHAT EXACTLY?

    I’ve dealt with these illnesses first hand as a counselor
    WHAT do you plan to classify them as if not Mental Illness? Please Educate yourself
    Please read the whole thing: http://www.aglp.org/gap/1_history/
    This is what Credibility looks like… Objective and factual ^^ Click it.

  • Rob Bishop

    My son has OCD and Autism and I’m not ready to accept that his brain is defective and requires drugs to function normally. I’m sure I’d be diagnosed with OCD if tested. What we consider “normal” is arbitrary. Watch how a hamster behaves. If hamsters were people, we’d diagnose them with mental illness. That’s fucking nuts. We need to accept the fact the real world doesn’t fit into a nice neat tidy box from a Hollywood movie. There are libraries of so called “scientific evidence” that depression, anxiety, inattentiveness, impulsivity, hyperactivity, violent rage, obesity, and addiction are biological defects, but show me one patient who complains of depression who is given a brain scan or a blood test to analyze neuro-chemical levels? I’m not bashing science. I’m a researcher and have a profound appreciation for science.

  • http://bpdtransformation.wordpress.com Edward Dantes

    I happened to see this comment on the front page. I’m sorry to hear as a counselor that you believe in the myth of schizophrenia as an illness. That can’t be helping your clients.

    Perhaps you know of Ronald Fairbairn and Otto Kernberg’s object-relations approach to understanding psychotic conditions as being manifestations of severe splitting with all-negative self and other images dominant over all-good self and other images. These conditions labeled “schizophrenia” and “severe borderline” usually arise out of extremely severe neglect and abuse by parents or peers in childhood or young adulthood.

    If you haven’t read their writing, I strongly suggest checking it out. It might set you on the road to being able to really transform psychotic people’s lives, enabling them to return to work and study, form families, have satisfying relationships, etc. A good introduction is David Celani’s Object Relations in the Clinical Setting. Another good one is Lawrence Hedge’s Working the Organizing Experience, which is about transforming psychotic conditions including schizophrenia and autistic states. These views are much more empathic and hopeful, in my opinion, compared to viewing these tragic, severe states of mind as lifelong brain illnesses. They emphasize viewing psychotic states as fixed pathological ways of relating and as ways of managing overwhelming terror and rage, rather than as illnesses. It makes more sense to me.

    I’ve also summarized the developmental view of an early object relations pioneer, a colleague of Kernberg, here –
    https://bpdtransformation.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/23-the-borderline-narcissistic-continuum-a-better-approach-to-understanding-diagnosis/

  • Phil_Hickey

    Jordan,

    According to the DSM, all significant problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving are “mental illnesses”. Some of these problems are listed as “due to a general medical condition”. These are indeed illnesses, and throughout my website, I’ve stated this clearly. The great majority of psychaitry’s “illnesses”, however, are not so listed, and indeed there is no evidence that they entail any biological pathology.

    I have written extensively on these topics. I have written specific posts on Mental Retardation, and Schizophrenia Part 1, Part 2, Part 3. Please take a look, if you care, and feel free to come back.

    The general answer to your question: “If not mental illness then what exactly?” is: non-medical problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving.

  • Paul Mullis

    I could care less if someone is gay or not. BUT I am sick of hearing about it every day in the news. I am also sick of seeing how openly gay people celebrate it while wearing their service uniform in the Military !!!! It tears down the spirit de corp of the entire concept of the Military ! Be gay, but shut up and move on and stop the agenda of making everyone have to accept it or else ! I feel today if I scream out I am White and straight people would attack me for being racist !!!! WHY !!! I have the right to be proud of what I am !

  • Lerro

    You can call anything ANYTHING if only you can politicize it enough. You need to just shut certain people out of the conversation and you can politically call a cow a snake if you’d like. Maybe you could even talk the Menopausal Grannies on the Supreme Court into marrying a cow to snake . . . . . . High up on a limb of a tree; of course.

  • Beon

    Homosexuality is a psychological disorder that needs to be treated. It is not something that is normal. People just need to admit this and help those who are homosexual become normal. Just by looking at our bodies, it is obvious that homosexuality isn’t something that is normal

  • Donald English

    Progressives have Lucifer on one shoulder and a personal Hedonistic lifestyle counselor on the other.

  • ohffs

    Just another example of out of control SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIORS… They have been at this crap for decades… Using activism to take NATURAL human scientific realities and twist them into iniquities that suit their narratives and agendas. Change scientific facts, get people fired through petitions, ruin the lives of those comfortable with their sex and sexuality with systematic public-school pushed gender-role reversals telling young boys to be in touch with their feminine side and young girls to work like men and put off having a family until it’s damn-near too late..
    SJWs are a plague.

  • Good good

    I like your opinion and appreciate that you have put in a good amount of reasoning to back it up, hiwever, I have a thoght. It may not be a good idea to compare physical illnesses with metal illnesses, because physical illnesses are completely different. They’re immediate, easy to diagnose and need to be treated. However mental illnesses are the brains inner workings defecting in a way, and they don’t have to be fixed if the person is content with themselves. So mental illnesses need personal preference to truly be defined as illnesses, where as physical ones dont. That’s not to say that they aren’t really though. Schizophrenia definitely isn’t like cancer, but it not normal to see or hear shit that’s coming from nowhere.

  • Crusadefortruth

    No it’s not the vote that eradicated Homosexuality from the mental disorder list, homosexuality still is a mental disorder. Just because someone is happy doesn’t mean they aren’t disordered, there are plenty of happy people who slice up puppies for fun. Doesn’t make it normal.
    Homosexuality is unnatural in the way that it deliberately ends bloodlines with ancient roots. Albeit not an excuse to oppress people based on their sexual orientation, it should not give way to pure acceptance either. What happened here was basically like people saying “I LIKE MY SMALL POX” and then small pox being removed from a list of diseases. It is still a disease.

  • Rob Bishop

    Your “logic” would deem anyone who decides not to have children as “unnatural” since that decision would “end an ancient bloodline”. You are very funny.

  • Crusadefortruth

    Yes. It actually is logically sound. Our ancestors struggled to survive, from the time we were oceanic dwelling, to surviving the elements in caves, etc. All those who came before you fufilled the purpose of life: procreation.
    And then, if by choice, (since if you were MADE infertile by disease or other occurance, it is a tragidy but not at least it was not your CHOICE) you decide not to have kids, you make every effort over millions of years to survive a vain effort.
    Deciding to be homosexual doesn’t necessarily end bloodlines, and if you don’t, kudos you found a way to keep survivng. Bravo.
    If not, you slap every ancestor that has ever fought to survive square in the face.
    There is only one purpose of life. Procreation.

  • Rob Bishop

    99.99% of all species that have ever lived on Earth are now extinct. There’s no “purpose” driving evolution. That the fittest survive is a fact, but there’s no “purpose” behind it. The idea there is a “purpose” in life is a fantasy of the human mind. Seeking a “purpose” supports delusions, such as religion.

  • all too easy

    Prove it.

  • Crusadefortruth

    Well, then I just feel sad for you. Since you don’t know you have a purpose, when it is as clear as day.

  • Rob Bishop

    You’re on a crusade for truth. People often “believe” they know the divine truth, which creates enemies of those who are “wrong”, and often leads to oppression, violence, terrorism, and war.

  • Crusadefortruth

    Not so. Just because you are blind to it does not mean it doesn’t exist. Case closed.

  • Rob Bishop

    It sounds like you’ve had contact with God.

  • Crusadefortruth

    You would like that wouldn’t you? So you could attack the Word instead of facts. Well God wasn’t here to start with, so why bring Him into it.
    I am using logic, because arguing God with non-believers is pointless.
    You cannot deny the fact that you do not know everything, including why life struggles so hard to survive as it does. If it were all without purpose, why is it here?
    Just because, right?
    You have no answer.
    We either believe you’re right, and there is no point to living at all.
    Or we believe that life is here for a reason, and that reason is to keep life alive.
    Everything past that is semantics.

  • splodge

    Never let the facts get in the way of a good story:
    Tests such as the Rorschach, Thematic Apperception Test (TAT) and the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) indicated that homosexual men and women were not distinguishable from heterosexual men and women in functioning. These studies failed to support the previous assumptions that family dynamics, trauma and gender identity were factors in the development of sexual orientation. In light of the overwhelming data, as well as changing social norms, the Board of Directors for the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality as a mental disorder from the DSM in 1973. (from wikipedia)

  • Brian Rector

    First, I have no problem with homosexuality as a sexual preference. Apparently, some humans prefer this. Secondly, as a heterosexual, I do not attempt to impose my preference on other human beings, and, I do not appreciate having other preferences thrust upon me. Moreover, I do not support laws being passed that give precedent to individuals based on their sexual preferences. I do not necessarily believe that a group of scientists has the ability to pass judgement on human behavior unless it is studied. Using circular logic to announce that a “dilemma” which has been in existence for millennia is no longer a dilemma by comparison to a completely unrelated disease is pure nonsense……..unless it is being considered that homosexuality can be eradicated in the same way smallpox was wiped out.

    Finally, no one mentioned that little or no information exists as to “who” the instigators of the protests were in San Francisco and other places. No mention has been made of the spineless, unscientific nature of the removal of homosexuality from ANY list. However, the complete arrogance of the APA leads me to believe that they are completely unqualified in the area of homosexuality, its causes, effects and predictable impact on a society where the vast majority of humans are not homosexuals. The broad statement that there “are no mental illnesses” is more circular logic employed to avoid the proper research necessary to define this issue; instead we have been instructed to ignore it.

  • Rob Bishop

    “There are no mental illnesses” often causes such a negative visceral reaction, the phrase may detract from productive discourse. On a similar note, I agree with the concept addiction is not a disease, but if I told people, “there’s no such thing as alcoholism” many people would be so repulsed and angered we couldn’t hold a normal conversation. I prefer a statement such as, “What we call mental illness is not a disease or a defect”

  • RCLN

    Masturbation was once viewed by the medical establishment as pathological. [See
    Prevention and treatment of masturbation, BS Talmey – ‎1933]. So what?

  • jhon doe

    Did we really need to bring religion into a science based article? Honestly, shouldn’t objectivity be the point here? Not whatever your beliefs say they should be?

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